L.s.d
 

Is there any company doing L.S.D.'s for the S12?
Mines a Mk2 i think (1988)....

no but you can get a ATB from quaife

And if you don't have £600 spare for a Quaife then you can use an S13 LSD with some other bits, for very little money.

600?.....:eek: .....Thats over double what i paid for the car - S13 it is then.
If anyone who has used and S13 diff could post up some picks of it, plus extra
parts i need - i would really appreciate it.
Thanks

You need the S13 diff, 2 left hand silvia shafts and one S13 inner 6 bolt CV joint housing and related driver side inner shaft....

Fully strip the S13 LSD, and removing the ring gear from it. Throw ring gear, case, shims etc in the bin

Then strip the S12 diff, and rebuild it with the S13 inner diff unit. ie bolt the S12 ring gear to the S13 unit.

Then the shafts need some work.

You use the short S12 shaft on the driver side with the S13 inner joint/inner

On the short side (passenger side) you can use the standard short shaft but you have to remachine so its like the S13 shaft.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/s12s13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/30psi/Diff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...i/DSCN9600.jpg

Cant the left output shaft be used from the s13/s14 diff?

No because it makes the shaft too long, and it full compresses up the cv joints and it even pushes the swing arm outwards

Got that, well i think that wount be a problem (first i need to make the car runing again :D , now thats bit of a problem)

I thought I might add that in the Vlsd the V stands for viscous. Viscous diffs are basically a single open diff with some friction plates that heat up a fluid which then engages the other half but only if it gets hot enough. This system works well if used for an extended period of time or if warmed up before use (eg small burnout) but generally, when driving around normally it wont do anything if you try to drift straight up. So it is a cheap alternative to a proper lsd but its like anything you get what you pay for.

i cant see how this set up would be reliable as you are using 2 different types of joint on the same drive shaft. CV which isn't supposed to move and a lobro joint which is designed to move. i cant see the CV joint lasting very long

They use the same type of CV joints, which is 3 spindle spider assembly type. Can't see how reliability is an issue, because the joints are working exactly as they were originally designed

Your mistaken I'm afraid.

They don't have that effect, in fact the opposite effect. Go and jack up a VLSD equipped car and you will struggle to turn the wheel on its own.

If someone was to pratt around trying to drift all day then the viscous unit warms up. Its an energy absorber. Once its hot a worn unit won't have much resistance anymore. Just like butter.

Its a damn good modification. Its not geared towards drifting. If you want drift then spend £700 on a Nismo GT pro diff.

I am not saying its a bad thing I have driven both viscous lsd and mechanical lsd i was a bit dissapointed by the vlsd. You do need a good diff to launch your car in a straight line as well as to go round corners so its not just drifters that need good diffs. However in my book(student)a cheap and easy mod is a good mod.

The main thing which this diff does is eliminate single wheel spin when you don't want it.

I noticed the LSD's effect most when I removed it back to a standard diff, and was surprised how frequently it would then spin one wheel. This was with circa 240bhp.

I am not surprised I recently owned a bmw e30 325i and even with about 150bhp it would spin one wheel all day, wet, dry, straight line, corners you name it. Previous to that I had a 270 bhp TVR which actually went round corners without spinning one wheel ever although I did fishtail on the motorway at 70mph in the wet, fun but scary. As for the S12 untill it gets a manual conversion the diff is the least of my worries the auto is slower than I expected.

This is from Club S12 where GerryB did a short write up on what it took to get his S13 VLSD to work in the S12... which I'll be doing in the next 6 months.

I have an s13 VLSD centre in my longnose s12 type 4.11 R200. It bolted in fine after I swapped the s12 crownwheel on to it.

BUT for the RHS drive shaft I had to take the inner CV off and swap the s13 inner CV on to it and run the s13 RHS input shaft in the diff to operate the Viscous centre. Also had to cut off about 8mm off the end of the spline that goes into the diff of the LHS s12 driveshaft, so it didn't fowl on the viscous coupling.

After these mods was just a bolt up.

(I got the VLSD reshimmed also before fitting it, (extra shims) to make it real tight.)



http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index...howtopic=16318

The shimming thing doesn't have any impact on how the LSD works, it actually means the teeth of the pinion wheels bind together extra tight. Not good for wear and also the effect isn't smooth, its 'bumpy'.

If you are on a budget and dont want to spend the value of your car on a new rear diff, I did read somewhere that a kingcab diff is plate type, as opposed to viscous, and a better performer for all but driving to the shops.
Be careful to do your homework though and find the one with the right size crownwheel bolts, I think there are two types, 10mm and 12mm... but if you get the right diff then its supposed to be an easy swap and 500 quid cheaper than a "proper" plate type diff.
We have done the scandinavian thing, and welded up the sun and planet gears, haven't done any miles on it yet as the car is still being built... but I have heard of drifters with S12's running welded diffs without any problems, although they can be a b@stard when driving slow, turning tightly and generally around town.

Welding the diff is easy enough and if you have the kit, it is free..... and IMO 100% better for drifting than a poncy viscous diff.

Conkers

The Kindcab diff won't work, its a live axle for a start.

No one here has mentioned fitting the S13 LSD for drifting though. The obvious choice is welding it. Only one S12 owner here is focused on drifting, but for the remainder the S13 diff is a good solution to the irritating issues of having an open diff.

I said kingcab rear DIFF, not kingcab rear AXLE... read it again, and what sort of muppet do you think I am.

EDIT: No need for that sort of response to a misunderstanding. Please reply to threads politely. Thanks. RichardK.

Qualifications and proof of non-muppetness: www.racing-green.com

Conkers.

Wow, you're a bit rude.

Is the kingcab diff an R200 then?

Quick google found this

'The Xterra and Titan get the D44, Frontier gets the D44 or C200, Armada gets the R230, Pathfinder gets the R200'

Pathfinder
http://www.lifecar.de/berichte/bilde...nder-paris.jpg

Not seen one of these in the scrapper, and I doubt there gonna be cheap.

An S15 diff or an R200 skyline diff will work, Japandyno flogs these on ebay, sometimes they go cheap.

I don't think any of those look much like a kingcab!

I haven't any experience of using a kingcab diff (just the guts), but I know I have read about it on the net and seen pictures.
Not all kingcab diffs will do the job though, but if I really wanted one, I am sure I could find the info and a diff without too much trouble.

Conkers.

ps.. didn't mean to come accross as rude, I just don't tolerate pillocks very well this time of the morning.

Well from what I can tell only the Nissan 4wd thing above has the R200 independant rear end. Of course then you may not need the guts as it were. The R200 diff comes inside a long nose or short nose casings. The S12 and the Z31 used the long nose type, S13, R series uses short nose.

Subaru diffs are R160/180 and are long nose, they actually fit to the S12 cross member. The only issue there would be adapting the driveshafts and making a new rear bracket.

I'm surprised at Nissan though, I'd expect their 4wd's to all to be a live axle, but I guess its Nissan being realistic to the fact that some of the vehicles are only used in taking the kids to school

Strewth.... it doesn't matter if it is a live axle or not,

First measure the backlash on your s12, (backlash is how much the crownwheel rocks on the pinion. Keep a note of this as you are going to use the original crownwheel again on your lsd.
Then you remove the guts from the kingcab rear axle, remove the crown wheel and bearings and throw away everything except the diff cage (with plate type lsd).
Then.. as long as you have the same bolt diamters, (apparently some were 10mm and some 12mm) fit your original crownwheel from your original non lsd (or gay viscous) rear axle onto the kingcab plate type lsd guts.
Fit the bearings, check bearing preload, check the backlash, moving the shims around to get the same backlash as you ran with your standard diff, otherwise it will whine...

And bobs your uncle...

Conkers <--- thats all I got to say about that.

Yeah I know how to build a diff, but from when I've seen the other Nissan axles open (H190 for example) they seem pretty different.

How do you know if the crown wheel will bolt on or if the bearing diameter or bearing cap diameter will be the same though? I agree that with shimming the diff you aim for the same backlash, but you also need to check the pinion depth. My point is for average joe bloggs with an s12, doing all this will be a major pain. My advice is to make things easier for yourself and stick with an option i've mentioned previously.

doesnt the s13 diff use floting joints? (lobro joints)

Na, but I have seen that type on the fwd nissans though.

Good point...

I suppose for the sort of people who bleed off the wastegate feed to up the boost, fit some neon lights, large rear wing and a shiny gearnob, then a viscous is certainly about as complicated as they want it to be.

But I have also seen a LOT of guys on here building 250-350bhp cars... and those guys would probably want something more serious than a shopping hack viscous diff.
I know the gpN cossies we ran in the WRC had viscous diffs, but they weren't much good either, my Integrale had a viscous centre diff and torsen rear, which made things interesting.... think terminal understeer until she came on boost and then a minimum 4 degree tail out... always kept me awake..

On my 6R4 we have plate diffs front and rear and a viscous centre.... the front is 4FF each side and rear is a 6FF each side and real tight at that... also drove McRaes subaru legacy (oooh about a thousand years ago) and he ran a solid rear diff, viscous centre, and the same 6FF spec as on my 6R4 at the front ! Needless to say, if you weren't committed, it did not want to go around corners.....

Looking forward to trying the welded diff on the s12, although mini roundabouts will be a pain..

Conkers.

i bought a s13 LSD to fit to my s12 but decided not to use it as the diff had floating joints which would defiantly compromise the CV joints as the CV joints need constant velocity (CV) to work reliable

Conkers, you're missing my point though. Most people on here arent running big power, nor do they have a big wallet. There's probably 5 running over 250bhp, and very few have really shown an interest to get a better diff. Most here bought an S12 coz they were on a budget, and I can only assume they would like to keep it that way. Things need to be kept in perspective...

The S13 diff is a good upgrade over a standard diff. Yes, its no way near as good as a motorsport or clutch type item, but you need to appreciate that most people who own an S12 don't have deep pockets to afford such goodies. Even if a diff is robbed from a kingcab, it still won't be cheap. You also need to appreciate that most people on here don't have an engineering or motorsport background, and therefore won't have the skills and tools (like you) to setup a diff.

My mate had a welded diff in his S12, whilst brilliant for drifting, it created some alarming understeer at times, which don't help when the S12 front camber isnt too good for understeer. At no point have I said an S13 diff can be used for drifting though.

I will probably get an S15 torsen diff, but these are fetching some good money at the moment, but I'll stick with the S13 LSD that I swapped a used bleed valve, neon lights, a shiny gearnob and a rear wing for :rolleyes:

Conkers, with all due respect, this is a friendly forum for S12 discussion and debate. Insults to other members is totally uncalled for and won't be tolerated.

Please ensure your replies are constructive/polite and non derogatory.

First, I want to apologise to 30psi for being rude. Make no mistake about that, Sorry.

But Richard, I have some beef with you..

Constructive.. I think my post has been constructive Richard, and I apologise for insinuating that the guy was a pillock.
I took exception to him insinuating that I was a muppet, with the "kingcab has a live axle" comment, when I was perfectly clear in my posting when I used the term "diff" as opposed to "axle", yet he misunderstood me and called me by stating the obvious.
If you are unsure, look up the definition of a diff verses an axle.

You are admin and I respect that, but you are sitting on a high horse and might want to have a good look in the mirror, I just spent a few minutes skimming through the sort of posts and comments you make on here, and can only summise that racist remarks and slurs against different religious beliefs are obviously ok as are derogatory remarks about officials at car meetings...

So I'll be watching you Richard... Racist remarks will not be tolerated, regardless of who you are.


Conkers. <--- "In my country we throw hypocritical administrators down the well" ;-)

Now lets all get back to talking about what we enjoy... Cars, Women and playing with them.

How to make friends and influence people ;)

To be perfectly honest I couldn't give a pig's ear how much you "watch" me and if I wish to repeat part of a scene from a 2006 released film (Borat) on my own server, I will do.

With regards to racist comments. I think you will find there are members on this forum of several different races or religions, none of whom are offended by my, or indeed any other posts on here. In the event that any Jew, whether in or out of a well, takes offence to this forum content then please don't hesitate to contact me or any other admin.

Do have a splendid weekend. :1la

Ive got in a few of these threads before and its irratating and can easily get out of hand all because somebody didnt say the full story initially and then someone else is trying to teach them what they already know. This can be easily be taken in offence
There is always banter and disagreements on a forum. Its hard to sometimes get down in a reply what your trying to put forward without it being read wrong or misunderstood.


:)