CA18DET bottom end query...

CNHSS1 · #1 22-01-2010, 16:39

i have to use ETs as the race regs dont allow changing the engine to a different type. Id say the ET sump is well up to the job. I can get 1.95G acceleration and not get surge

i have tried the DET oil pump into a bare ET block ages ago and it fits. You would then need to use the DET crank and oil pump (which you have), and either the DET sump (modify it to look like an ET one internally!) or modify an ET sump. I havent tried fitting a DET sump and oil pump into an ET, so its from memory/guess, but i reckon its the forward part around the oil pump thats different, so the ET one might not be easy to mod.
You will need to use the DET pickup with a DET pump too which is at a differnt angle (not central like the ET) so would foul the ET sump anyway.

Using the DETs crank brace is a good idea, certainly cheaper than the billet steel ones i had made (though not as nice

) but you need to cut/grind away near the front and rear corners to clear the ET sump, and even then a little little 'persuasion' with a no.5. 'Fu** stick' is needed to the sump corners (not enough to distort it though.

Personally it may be easier to buy a spare ET crank, bound to be someone on here with one or else let me know and i'll ask a few mates if they have any, and flog your good DET crank (pretty rare these days!) and oil pump to someone with an S13. That should fund the new ET oil pump and then no need to machine a bottom timing belt pulley or mod the sump etc.
Still worthwhile using a modified crank brace from a DET though, and DET main bearing cap bolts (longer than ET but same thread etc).

I think that modding the DET crank is a no go, as the nose diameter is a few millimeters different, not a few thou, and also i think you would need a new drive flat for the oil pump grinding too as i think its asmaller diameter.
If you need to know for definite, let me know, i have scrap DET and ET cranks
and oil pumps i could measure. You probably have to get the cranks re-surface hardened too or nitrided as the grinding process would eat through the cranks standard surface hardness, not worth the hassle or expense if you can find a good spare ET crank and buy a new ET oil pump.
Dont drill holes in the DET rods, it'll wreck them.

Will make a nice motor that'll be nice and strong when its finished, without the crap DET sump issues

EDIT: Will have a look for oil squirters but pretty sure i havent mate. someone on here or sxoc should have some though

Noodle_Soup · #2 22-01-2010, 22:22

Should have had a chat with you before getting stuff done mate, i knackered the crank so thinking a det crank would be easier to get hold of found one, and had it checked,ground and balanced and then bought bearings to suit!unfortuneatley the oil pump is for the ET so gotta real mis match going on! will stick a post on here and DW to see if i can get a decent ET crank, i imagine they are even rarer! i didnt wanna drill the rods but it was another idea thrown into the mix as a possible solution. will stick with the ET sump as i dont like the oil surge ideas and im pretty impressed with the 1.95 G acceleration! thats why i wanna stay 8v, prefer the torque curve! last time mine was on the rollers it was 183bhp and 195ftlbs torque (at 4,500rpm as i had a dodgy coil!) whats yours kicking out?

I do have a spare ET engine basically complete but didnt wanna rip it apart just to rob the crank, as it is still possible that i could encounter the same issues with a sticky crank gears!

s13eater · #3 23-01-2010, 10:44

yeah, they produce some good torque, mine made 325ft/lbs

.

CNHSS1 · #4 23-01-2010, 17:23

i will ask around our guys for a spare ET crank, sure someone will have one

S13 Eaters is the daddy on the figures, mines only 282hp/266lb/ft but thats only with a responsive Turbo Technics T28 hybrid @ 15psi. The ET is much underrated and overlooked by the DET. ive got some decent bits left if you fancy them? the turbo, Canadian fwd facing manifold and modified head and cam etc

a good DET crank with bearings would sell on sxoc a piece of pi55

Noodle_Soup · #5 23-01-2010, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNHSS1

i will ask around our guys for a spare ET crank, sure someone will have one

S13 Eaters is the daddy on the figures, mines only 282hp/266lb/ft but thats only with a responsive Turbo Technics T28 hybrid @ 15psi. The ET is much underrated and overlooked by the DET. ive got some decent bits left if you fancy them? the turbo, Canadian fwd facing manifold and modified head and cam etc

a good DET crank with bearings would sell on sxoc a piece of pi55

if you could ask around for a crank that would be ace. Might be interested in the cam mate, how different is it to standard?im running a custom four branch top mount manifold and a IHI hybrid roller bearing TD05. and have an eight spark head which has been ported and polished.Bit concerned that i wont get the right monies for the crank and bearings, i mean the bearings were in the region of £150!!might get an ET crank ground to suit the bearings. Yours is still kicking out brave for the boost your running, im hoping to be running a bit more then 15psi, is that regs or reliability making you run that boost? seems i might have managed to find some squirters. the machining done on your blocks to take them was done on a milling machine im guessing, dont suppose you would have any specs, measurements for where they were drilled? i mean the pics help but bit hard to scale from there! are you running a modified cam in yours? just wondering if thats why your torque curve is less then the BHP at the top end.

CNHSS1 · #6 23-01-2010, 23:06

sorry, i want to flog the cam and head complete really, but Gripo on here has a brand new Piper cam for sale cheap.
power delivery has always been more importnat to me than max numbers, the way it comes on boost and the shape of the curve makes as much difference to the times as the actual bhp. In the end 15psi came from the most i could get at last dyno session on the external wastegate spring and boostsolenoid. Always planned to run more boost, but have decided to rebuild the car from the ground up following a pretty hefty shunt and go in a different direction on the engine (current class means i can run any engine). Had planned to run approx 21-23psi which i reckon would have seen around 315bhp.

Cams make a lot of difference to power delivery, as does the inlet manifold. Std cam strangles breathing over 5k rpm, and allow you can make the same figures as with a hotter cam, you have to shove loads more boost doen its neck which does nothing for the EGTs or reliability.
Inlet manifold again strangles things. The fwd facing type are much larger volume and allow shorter and neater intercooler pipe runs. I saw about 15bhp and 25lb/ft of torque when i added my current manifold. See pics in project section and for sale section.

the blocks were all machined by a friend who has a precision engineering firm. I gave him a DET block to use as a basis. Gotta be careful as you have to machine thru into the main oil gallery and close to other critical areas. I paid about £100 per block, but that was 5 years ago.

CNHSS1 · #7 23-01-2010, 23:10

one of our guys has a crank from an engine that the HG blew on so hes gonna pull it out and have a look at the condition of it. Will keep ya posted.

i had a tubular top mount manifold, and again frees up breathing at higher boost (1bar+) but if not used with a cam as well it may be a bit disappointing. The tubulars make the turbo come on boost about 250+rpm later, so without the ability to exploit the benefits of the extra breathing of the tubular manifold (bigger turbo, better cam and inlet manifold imho), the worth of the manifold is compromised. Does make turbo access much better though!